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cold start problem doing my head in now help please

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cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:36 pm

Few weeks back went out to a dead battery takes up to 7 times to get it going think this killed the battery as only a year old heavy duty at that.
thing is it sounds like it running off 3 cylinders then the 4th one kicks in and all is well smoke covers the street then its ok no smoke seems to run ok.
starting to think it is injector but its ok when it is stared but i can hear a ticking/tapping noise when i rev 2500-3000 rpm could this be valve clearance?
as i had this done last year.
any help in the right direction would be a great help.
thanks

oh when its cold i have to keep foot to the floor on the gas if i don't it will not start.

it's a 2.5 di 1999 non turbo.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby webbycue » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:39 pm

Could be the injection pump. Mine was a nightmare to start in cold weather. once started it would start first time for the rest of the day. I swapped my injection pump out of my other van in to it to see if that would help it and it now starts first time and no smoke.

Now i need a pump for my other van. lol
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby AndyG » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:39 pm

Leak off mod :idea:
Poor timing/worn timing belt :idea:
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:37 pm

hi thanks for reply
has leak off mod cam belt was done 1 and half years ago.I had lift pump done last year.

Today gone to start no go it killed the battery after 12 times of turning it over had to change battery cleaned lead from bat to starter at the same time it took 3 times to get it started and ok for now
battery good alternator good
but when it first starts up only running off 3 cyl with foot to floor on gas then 4th cyl kicks in and all good.

so far from what you say it could be the injector pump but no smoke when driving only on start up that i think is because of the 4th cyl not kicking in seems to be miss fire on high revs.
it has had the egr mod could this be the problem?
dont know what to do i do not have the money to take to injector dealer to get it looked at.
but i think it is getting louder now.
ticking - tapping noise.its done about 130000 miles
clutch is on its way out but never heard of this to do with starting problem?
had oil change last oct so can not be that coolant small leak but good top up with anti free in it.
air filter good fuel filter done last year.

please if any more help can be given it will be great.
or its a pump or my van is going to the scrap.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:14 pm

sorry forgot to say before the battery went dead i got the clutch to the bite and gave some gas to bump it and it sounded like it wanted to go but battery was too dead to let it start if that makes any sense?
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby webbycue » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:28 pm

if it starts ok every time after an initial warm up for the rest of the day, but becomes a c$nt to start again tomorrow first thing then i think it will be the pump. mine is in getting refurbed, so when its been done i will let you no how much it cost. that way you will no if its cheaper to source a second hand pump.

when mine started to go it would need a really good crank to start it, then over time it needed the heavy duty hi amp snap on booster to get it going in cold weather. it slowly got worse and eventually became very smokey under load. i was going to scrap the engine but then i took the pump out of my other 190 transit and stuck it in and it now runs sweet and no smoke at all.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby Keef » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:39 pm

My van is doing exactly the same thing at the moment only worse.

It will only start from cold on easystart then it runs on 3 until it has warmed up a bit but still not quite right even when hot and idles like crap.

I've tried leak off mod, new fuel filter, bleed injectors and swapped No3 injector as that one seemed to cause it but no different.

I suspect air in the fuel or an injector gone down but mine is breathing quite heavy so maybe a bit more terminal? We'll see.

When I get some time I'll try sticking some clear pipe in the leakoff to check for air, swap out all the injectors, check the rocker pedestal bolts,
treble check the valve clearances etc but it's a bit bloody chilly atm so it can wait. :lol:
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:23 pm

yes sounds like mine summer it was ok till it was damp cold fog then it took 2 times to start but now may as well not have a van as can not use it when i need it anyway.
and it is my only transport.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby bortaf » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:05 am

Does it have a cold start advance on it? if it does is it working?
How much is 12 turns, 12 tries at cranking for 10 seconds or so or just 12 turns of the engine? if the later i'd say the starter was on the way out if it's killing the battery that quick? is it cranking slow or fast? when was the oil last changed? cold Di's really need a good cranking speed to get going sometime just jumping them will cure the bad starting (if it is a cranking speed issue that is), lots of people fit twin batterys and why we get all the cold start threads every winter :(
The knock could just be diesel knock they do tend to do it when reved and not firing cleanly but without hearing it's hard to say :?
Having said all that it's shouldn't miss and spew unburnt diesel out the zorst but i would check for air leaks into the filter, cold days make the problem worse the colder it is the worse it is ?
Then start to worry about the exspensive stuff :(
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:28 pm

bortaf wrote:Does it have a cold start advance on it? if it does is it working?
How much is 12 turns, 12 tries at cranking for 10 seconds or so or just 12 turns of the engine? if the later i'd say the starter was on the way out if it's killing the battery that quick? is it cranking slow or fast? when was the oil last changed? cold Di's really need a good cranking speed to get going sometime just jumping them will cure the bad starting (if it is a cranking speed issue that is), lots of people fit twin batterys and why we get all the cold start threads every winter :(
The knock could just be diesel knock they do tend to do it when reved and not firing cleanly but without hearing it's hard to say :?
Having said all that it's shouldn't miss and spew unburnt diesel out the zorst but i would check for air leaks into the filter, cold days make the problem worse the colder it is the worse it is ?
Then start to worry about the exspensive stuff :(

thanks for reply
not sure about cold start advance
when I turn it crank it it seems normal but like it will not catch not a noise from starter eg whine bang ect when done a few times slows down but thats just the battery lost charge by cranking.when warm starts flick of the key.
today went out in it 40 mile trip parked it up 7 hours later it was cold started first time but miss fire and lots of smoke.It only smokes on start up from cold when it runs bad
oil done oct last year i do it every 6 moths with filter.
fuel filter done last year summer but may look into this if you think it could be the problem?
the miss fire if it was a petrol on my old cars from the past i would say it would be spark plugs or coil pack but this engine i have no idea?
so it sounds like it starts on 3 cyl or when cooled down starts on 4 cyl but miss fire at some rev sounds like slight miss fire poor performance at low revs say under 2500-3000rpm.when its warm don't seem too bad but slight miss fire.
any more help would be great and thanks all for help given.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby MinorMatt » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:36 pm

I had one with a ticking noise, the compression seal on the end of the injector had failed - lowering the compression in the 1 cylinder and making it harder to start. Once the compression seal was changed it was much much better
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby DodgeRover » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:10 am

Keef wrote:My van is doing exactly the same thing at the moment only worse.

It will only start from cold on easystart then it runs on 3 until it has warmed up a bit but still not quite right even when hot and idles like crap.

I've tried leak off mod, new fuel filter, bleed injectors and swapped No3 injector as that one seemed to cause it but no different.

I suspect air in the fuel or an injector gone down but mine is breathing quite heavy so maybe a bit more terminal? We'll see.

When I get some time I'll try sticking some clear pipe in the leakoff to check for air, swap out all the injectors, check the rocker pedestal bolts,
treble check the valve clearances etc but it's a bit bloody chilly atm so it can wait. :lol:


Whats yours running on in this cold weather though :D If you swapped injectors over and the problem stayed on that cylinder its not the injector. If its only on 3 when it starts then quickly picks up onto 4 I would guess at low compression on that cylinder - that would tally with it breathing hard. It could be air though as even the most worn out knackered diesels will usually idle OK once warmed up unless the pump is fubar.
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:51 am

MinorMatt wrote:I had one with a ticking noise, the compression seal on the end of the injector had failed - lowering the compression in the 1 cylinder and making it harder to start. Once the compression seal was changed it was much much better

thanks for reply
how would i test this is the part cheap? i heard the injectors can snap when you try to take them out is this true?
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby Guy88 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:21 am

what oil is in it??


what starter do you have (big or small), most starting issues on these are due to the engine not turning fast enough :wink:
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Re: cold start problem doing my head in now help please

Postby gazwood » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:44 pm

Guy88 wrote:what oil is in it??


what starter do you have (big or small), most starting issues on these are due to the engine not turning fast enough :wink:


hi thanks for reply.
it has 5/30 oil and looks to be the big starter.
today it took about 7 times to start sounded like a petrol lawnmower when you try to get it started and when it did turn over running off 3 cyl took about 5 min for 4th one to wake up.
had a look at fuel filter try to drain the water out sounds like a lot of air in the filter you can hear it when you unscrew the tap at the bottom of filter is this the problem?

i know the clutch is on its way out and the water pump may have slight leak on the back could it be any of them also i have been told ford focus has a problem a bit like it and it is due to carbon dust in the starter.
any of them sound like the problem people off this site say it may be the pump any way to test this.
its ok when warm but if parked up for 6 hours or so and temp drops its harder to start and puts out the smoke as soon as you pull off it don't smoke
this one is getting me now as i do not know from one day to the next if it will start.
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