Desperately in need of advice and help!! Transit MK3 2.5TD

[Lor]

Hi All!

This is my first post here and I am really in a pinch unfortunately.. I could really use some advice and help here!

I am currently in South America, Quito, Ecuador to be precise with a Transit MK3 2.5 TD 100hp , motorcode 4AE converted to campervan.. approx 270.000 km's.
I went to a mechanic in Colombia because I had a broken fuel gauge... this is where all the sh*t started, I did not have any other issues before this.
the mechanic let the tank down because the issues were related to the sender unit after some ' troubleshooting'
He took out the sender unit and repaired it somehow, at least the fuel gauge now works.. they also did an oil change with filter and cleaned out the airfilter.

BUT now the problems began, after I drove off from this mechanic the engine stalled after a few kilometers and felt like it didn't get any diesel anymore. No more power and the engine died off and I had to rev it a lot while trying to start to pump some diesel into the engine again,This happened about three times in my round trip back to this mechanic.
The mechanic wnet for a ride with me to see what's wrong.. the engine died off again but somehow he kept it running without it getting fuel or enough fuel (he had no clue whatsoever) and the Check Engine light went on and the car went into Limp mode.. which according to him was fine because the engine did no longer shut down now.. It also does not shut off when I turn and remove the key for at least 10 seconds.
after this he went completely insane on the engine unscrewing everything he could to try to find the problem because he was convinced it was not his handy work on the sender unit... something I am actually sure of is the cause of this problem..

I drove off because there was no reasoning with these guys and I ended up with a car in limp mode which they said was fine.

I went to a diesel specialist in a different town who did a lot of troubleshooting on the issues the car had now and they found out that the solenoids or the entire EPIC fuel pump are broken. they managed to take it out of limp mode and suggested I drive to the capital, Quito, where I managed to get with a lot of shutting down eventually. During my drive, not in limp mode, the engine died off a couple of times as was the issues after the work on the sender unit. and I also got stuck in full throttle once which was new for me and definetely not good for the engine.. when I started it the day after my ride to Quito it felt like I could press the gas pedal to the floor but nothing happened anymore, motor does run but that's alll it does for now..

So I think I have a broken sender unit which causes air to go to the fuel pump in stead of fuel now which has had a domino effect in destroying the fuel pump and maybe other parts..

What do you guys think is wrong and how can I fix it? parts are not available here so I would have to ship everything from Europe, and the car was way to expensive to not do a thing about it.. I stand to loose about 9000 euros this way :'( and my road trip in South America is completely f*cked.. excuse my french

I'm really in a tight spot here, please help me out with some tips and advice !!

Lor

[wojciech]

Try check is it vacu in tank - when "the engine stalled after a few kilometers and felt like it didn't get any diesel anymore" open fuel filler cap and check if fuel tank sucks the air.
During work with sender, fuel tank was disassembled - maybe bleed pipe in filling unit is closed
Check also aeration valve in filler cup.

About air in fuel pipes - try check it using a bit of transparent plastic pipe (between filter and pomp).

[wojciech]

Try check is it vacu in tank - when "the engine stalled after a few kilometers and felt like it didn't get any diesel anymore" open fuel filler cap and check if fuel tank sucks the air.
During work with sender, fuel tank was disassembled - maybe bleed pipe in filling unit is closed
Check also aeration valve in filler cup.

About air in fuel pipes - try check it using a bit of transparent plastic pipe (between filter and pomp).

But it can be also coincidence between broken sender unit and no power.
In Lucas Epic system first suspicion is for start-stop valve in injection pomp - broken seal on armature (solenoid plunger)
For your model (it is Mk4) you need bigger plunger, diameter 7,62 mm, lenght with seal 24 mm. Delphi no. 9160 548. For later models are smaller. ... No. 126 on the picture.
It is easy and quick work, without pomp disassembly from engine.

Try writing on priv to user MinorMatt - he is Forum Guru about Lucas Epic.

[Lor]

Well I don’t think it’s a coincidence because when the car stalled the engine kept running somehow. I myself immediately shut it off and waited a little before starting it again while pumping the gas pedal to get it back r life.
The ‘mechanic’ let it run without shutting off the engine and then the red light came on. So I think the lack of fuel destroyed the pump or solenoids or hopefully just the plunger.
I am not sure but the problems started with the gas tank.
I’ve driven about 70’s in limp mode after this without the engine stalling to visit the next mechanic. They managed to get it out of limp mode and advised me to go to the capital Quito. During that trip the engine stalled again as if being out of fuel and once blasted into full throttle and didn’t stop anymore till I stopped it and let it stall in gear. This is something that worries me a lot at the moment..
could all this be related to just the plunger? Or is it a combination of issues? Or is the whole epic ruined?
I had to drive here I had no other options..

Does anyone know where I could order the plunger parts online? And what is the part number of the sender unit? I don’t know if I have to replace that thing as well.

Well I have an appointment at yet another mechanic tomorrow and I will show him these things.

Thanks!

[wojciech]

Or is the whole epic ruined?
I had to drive here I had no other options..

Does anyone know where I could order the plunger parts online? And what is the part number of the sender unit? I don’t know if I have to replace that thing as well.

Well I have an appointment at yet another mechanic tomorrow and I will show him these things.

Thanks!

Fuel in Lucas Epic pomp works as hydraulic factor for electromagnetic regulation valves - if pump is airlocked plungers works incorrect (dose of injection, timing etc.). But pump can not be destroyed during air-locked work, always inside is a little of fuel. Fuel it is lubricity factor.

About plunger - it is problem to buy it for Transit Mk4 (1991-1994), for this period plunger is bigger, it is very hard to find it now in Europe. https://toni-einspritzpumpenservices.de ... 8640a102a/
It is repair kit 9109-719 with seals and spring, inside is plunger 9169-548A (this bigger one).

About sender unit - look for link https://www.catcar.info/ford/?lang=en&l ... IrMA%3D%3D
Sender unit it is No. 9, finis 1021451
Fuel pipe between tank and injection pump works with underpressure only between tank and feedpump (small, mechanic pump on engine body under exchaust manifold, close to bulkhead) and in this part system can be air-locked. Rest of pipe during engine work works with pressure and can not take air. So - take out once more time tank and check connection between plastic pipes and sender spigots. It is most likely place.
It is not easy work - try before it, check is it air in pipe - as I wrote in previous post.
If you buy new sender - it won't change anything, I think.

[Lor]

Again thank you very much for your reply!

Air getting into the pump would explain the current behavior?
I went to a diesel specialist here and they were convinced the solenoids were broken and I should find a completely new pump..but they didn't even look at all the things I mentioned about the fuel tank and the dying while driving behavior. They only checked out the limping mode and why the engine doesn't stop when taking out the keys.

I luckily found a English speaking mechanic here (very rare find.) well the boss is english. And I will first have them take out the tank, or I will do it myself with their tools and go over everything you mentioned!

will update once I know more!

[wojciech]

In this link it is easy to understand how EPIC works and is some important info - especially it is about Mk4 EPIC in Transit Mk4 (1991-1994). viewtopic.php?f=31&t=148596

In link http://www.giordanobenicchi.it/tecnica% ... Manual.pdf
you can find much proffesional "SERVICE WORKBOOK - EPIC D.I. Engine Management System" for LDV van, but it is the same Transit engine.

If you write that the engine doesn't stop when taking out the keys - it can be broken start-stop valve (shut-off valve). But if I remember correctly - in Transit Mk4 start-stop valve works whole time in opened position when ignition key is on, in later model this valve is controlled by PWM signal from PCM. During work it is still opened and closed with constant frequency. So - LUCAS EPIC pumps for Mk3 and for later models (also LDV) can be non-convertible.
I know too little about EPIC... My last EPIC I sold... 21 years ago.

On picture you have exactly your wiring diagram for engine control system (Transit 1991-1994). With correct wires colors. Of course - without immobiliser only.

[Lor]

I found out today that my fuel tank is pulled into a complete vacuum. The engine ran really bad when I started it and I could not rev it. Shut it down after and opened fuel cap. This gave a hissing sound and the tank inhaled a lot of air. After this I started the engine again and it ran fine after a few seconds.
I also discovered underneath the car that the fuel lines are very stiff and are compressed at the end of the sender unit.
Worst thing I found out is that the return line was completely folded double and blocked off because of this.

The mechanics however insisted on continuing there troubleshooting the epic by disconnecting the fuel tank and hooking up a barrel or diesel directly to the pump. Which to me sounds like decent investigation. Any ideas how pressure the epic should have? At the point where they measured it it gave about 2 (bar) and they told me that 4 is actually the normal value.. can this be different for this fuel pump?

Lor

[wojciech]

I found out today that my fuel tank is pulled into a complete vacuum.

It was my first suggestion in first post...
Take in hand fuel cup, and do a full teardown. In fuel cup is a small air valve, if it is dirty, it can be blocked - It is this that vacu is formed in tank. I had the same problem twenty years ago.

Any ideas how pressure the epic should have?

Injection pump has own transfer rotary vane pump, it works together with pressure holding valve (dump valve ), so correct value of inside pressure is controlled independently to feed pump. But on condition - feed pump must be able to draw in fuel from tank - without vacu in tank it gives 2-4 bars. In your van feed pump couldn't supply of fuel...
Second important role of feed pump - it has two valves inside, during long stop this valves work against take back fuel from injection sytem to tank (non-return valve). If valves are worn-out, for fuel place is coming air and system is air-locked.
Feed pump is very cheap (replacement), exchange simple and quick.

Stop think about pressure in pump and in fuel pipes - shut off the problem at the source, it can not be vacu in tank.

[Lor]

It was my first suggestion in first post...
Take in hand fuel cup, and do a full teardown. In fuel cup is a small air valve, if it is dirty, it can be blocked - It is this that vacu is formed in tank. I had the same problem twenty years ago.

do you mean the fuel cap? or is this something in the fuel tank? I've let down the tank and it has 2 things in it, the sender unit and some other thing which has a hose attached and leads to a thing that looks like nr 11 in the picture of the fuel tank parts you've attached to this series or posts.
Feed pump is the sender unit?

thanks!

[wojciech]

It was my first suggestion in first post...
Take in hand fuel cup, and do a full teardown. In fuel cup is a small air valve, if it is dirty, it can be blocked - It is this that vacu is formed in tank. I had the same problem twenty years ago.

do you mean the fuel cap?

Yes. fuel cup, it is possible to disassemble it for parts. I did it long time ago, inside is small one-way valve for air. If this valve is blocked, air can not to come in - arises vacu in tank.

Feed pump is the sender unit?

No, feed pump it is mechanical pum mounted on the engine body, under exhaust manifold, close to bulkhead. Feed pump sucks fuel from tank and pumps fuel to filter under pressure.
So - feed pump has two spigots, pipes have on the ends quick couplings.
On picter you can see feed pump location on 2,5D engine (you have different exhaust with turbo, but it is the same engine).
But your feed pump looks ok - the problem lies elsewhere.
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Propably - all your problems are closed in little fuel cup... Vacu in tank makes impossible sucking fuel by feed pump.

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